The early pages of J.M Coetzee’s Disgrace set up the dynamics of white supremacists, elitist superiority of a post-colonial upbringing. It is as Edward Said’s posited it; “Independence was for white and Europeans, the lesser or subject peoples were to be ruled” (374). In Disgrace’s South African setting, white men, although the minority typically viewed the native blacks as ‘subjected’. Coetzee’s protagonist David Lurie, was involved in relationships that mimicked this power and race supremacy.
This introduction follows with a story, exploring post-colonial “residues” which permeated the mindset of David Lurie’s generation. Lurie’s age, mid fifties, is significant because he was raised in a generation that fiercely maintained this supremacist attitude. This stance is evident in David’s behavior towards his daughter Lucy’s neighbor, the black Petrus. David finds it difficult to accept the modern, equal, neighborly relationship that exists between Petrus and Lucy. Admittedly, David does make an effort to rectify this indigenous position, “In spite of which he feels at home with Petrus, is even prepared, however guardedly, to like him.” (117) David is perpetually conscious of the stereotype of white dominance that he has been rigid for so long. Petrus, at one point, at a loss for a proper label, calls Lucy his “benefactor”. David recognizes the societal necessity of reevaluating language to accomadate the changning dynamic. “A distasteful word” David muses about Petrus’s choice of ‘benefactor’, “the language he draws on with such aplomb is, if he only knew it, tired, friable… what is to be done?... nothing short of starting all over again with the ABC.” (129)
Notably, Lurie’s attitude is juxtaposed to that of his daughter, Lucy, more liberal minded, and obviously of a newer generation. Lucy although initially having hired him as an employee, honestly views him as an equal, insisting; “’I can’t order Petrus about. He is his own master.’” (114) David cannot as easily allow the overturning relationship, that Petrus could essentially be his daughter’s master. Conversely, Lucy was willing to accept Petrus as a husband, claiming her father must not “get on [his] high horse with Petrus” (204).
It seems David was correct when he recognized that “Between Lucy’s generation and mine a curtain seems to have fallen.” (210) As a reader, I am inclined to think the revolutionizing is positive.
Sunday, April 13, 2008
Saturday, April 12, 2008
Post Colonial – Land Connection
Petrus along with the rest of the African people are ambitious to take back what’s theirs. The time when the white colonists predominantly took African land into their control; “Petrus would like to take over Lucy’s land. Then he would like to have Ettinger’s too, or enough of it to run a herd on.” (117) Petrus backs up his argument on Pollux with David; “David, it is a hard thing you are saying, that this boy is a thief. He is very angry that you are calling him a thief. That is what he is telling everyone. And I, I am the one who must be keeping the peace. So it is hard for me too.” (137)
Yes, it’s hard for every African to reclaim their land after it was under control by whites; “Many of us are struggling to find new strategies of resistance. We must engage decolonization as a critical practice if we are to have the meaningful chances of survival . . .” – Bell Hooks (364) They are not supposedly thieves but citizens who have every right to reclaim their inherent origins of land. It’s hard for Petrus too, even though he is sharecropping Lucy’s land. Bev Shaw states; Petrus is itching for Lucy to pull out.” (140)
Lucy finally admits it; “They see me as owing something. They see themselves as debt collectors, tax collectors. Why should I be allowed to live here without paying? Perhaps that is what they tell themselves.”(158) In this scene of the novel we interpret the emphasis on how Africans claim their territories after a long struggle through liberation.
Bell Hooks states; “The postmodern critique of ‘identity’, though relevant for renewed black liberation struggle, is often posed in many ways problematic”.(364) Meaning that Africans have identified themselves as beneficiaries of their own native soil. Towards the end of the novel you find a whole deal of payback by Africans in relation to Petrus stating “I will marry her”[lucy]. (202) David answers back: “This is not how we do things. . . We . . . Westerners”. (202) Petrus’ decision is instead an act of polygamy. Polygamy, itself is tabooed in western societies. It’s rather a cultural practice in third world countries especially in Africa.
Yes, it’s hard for every African to reclaim their land after it was under control by whites; “Many of us are struggling to find new strategies of resistance. We must engage decolonization as a critical practice if we are to have the meaningful chances of survival . . .” – Bell Hooks (364) They are not supposedly thieves but citizens who have every right to reclaim their inherent origins of land. It’s hard for Petrus too, even though he is sharecropping Lucy’s land. Bev Shaw states; Petrus is itching for Lucy to pull out.” (140)
Lucy finally admits it; “They see me as owing something. They see themselves as debt collectors, tax collectors. Why should I be allowed to live here without paying? Perhaps that is what they tell themselves.”(158) In this scene of the novel we interpret the emphasis on how Africans claim their territories after a long struggle through liberation.
Bell Hooks states; “The postmodern critique of ‘identity’, though relevant for renewed black liberation struggle, is often posed in many ways problematic”.(364) Meaning that Africans have identified themselves as beneficiaries of their own native soil. Towards the end of the novel you find a whole deal of payback by Africans in relation to Petrus stating “I will marry her”[lucy]. (202) David answers back: “This is not how we do things. . . We . . . Westerners”. (202) Petrus’ decision is instead an act of polygamy. Polygamy, itself is tabooed in western societies. It’s rather a cultural practice in third world countries especially in Africa.
Friday, April 11, 2008
Colonialism in Coetzee (Part 2)
There was some illumination about the presence of colonialism in Disgrace after finishing the book. I don’t think that’s what Coetzee set out to do but from what little we know about the man’s life it’s reasonable to assume that he never really intends to do any real thing in his work. But there is still so much about how someone feels about the shift in structure in post-apartheid
About Petrus, who is of course the most prominent black character in the work, I think his characterization was deliberately planned to make us not like him on a certain level. He strikes me as man a hair trigger away from becoming a malicious force. He wants to drive out the whites. Now why does he want to do this?
On a very clear level there is the aspect of reclamation involved. Petrus might see himself as taking back the land of his people, his ancestors, his birthright that was taken from him and his father and his father before him by the whites. I point to the Cheikh Hamidou’s quote in The Novel in
“They are truly African because they are born in Africa, they live in
Hamidou is talking about
There is something to be said about the way David Lurie treats him both before and after he realizes Petrus might have had something to do with the attack on Lucy’s farm and the key evidence of this at least to me is on p. 140 where he says to Bev:
“Because Petrus has a beard and smokes a pipe and carries a stick, you think Petrus is an old-style kaffir. But it is not like that at all. Petrus is not an old-style kaffir, much less a good old chap.”
Lurie’s not just accusing Bev of naivety, he seems to be projecting his own ideas and impressions of Petrus on to her; impressions that were proven wrong after the attack. He was willing to see Petrus as a kind hard worker and sees him now as a man who may be smarter and more cunning than any other person he’s encountered thus far. It is once again, just as we saw in his phone call to Soroya and having to deal with the fall out of his affair with Melanie, the colonialist being forced to recognize the change in the power structure and the humanity of the formerly colonized.
As to my feelings about Lurie, I don’t know. He’s certainly not someone I’d like to become anytime soon but unlike Sarah I don’t hate the man. May be I’m so screwed up in my own head that I can’t see why there’s so much venom towards him or maybe I still just see him a character in a book. I’m indifferent, yeah he manages to act like big jerk all the time but he’s still ink and paper to me.
Thursday, April 10, 2008
3.10.08
As discussed in class, let's finish Disgrace on Monday, and spend Wednesday wrapping up Coetzee, post-colonialism, and the relationship between the author and the narrator (we'll discuss the Times article about his move to Australia, found to the right). For Monday, write a 250-400 word blog which reformulates the blog you wrote for last week. That is, now that you've finished the book what connections do you see between post-colonial thinking and this book? Think too (mention it if it interests you) about how (or if) the first part of the book was trying to set that up.
Too many of you shirked the requirement to quote a post-colonial thinker in that blog. Do not do so this time.
I'd also like to discuss our sympathies to David Lurie a bit on Monday--an informal poll I've been taking is leading to the conclusion that most people are of Sarah's opinion: no sympathy.
Lastly, be thinking about your paper ideas as soon as you can, and sending them along to me. As I said in class, I usually dislike leaving the due date to after break, but here the schedule forces it. The danger is a week of not thinking about it at all, then cramming to write it in two days. Try not to do this--remember that this will be the only draft of this essay.
Too many of you shirked the requirement to quote a post-colonial thinker in that blog. Do not do so this time.
I'd also like to discuss our sympathies to David Lurie a bit on Monday--an informal poll I've been taking is leading to the conclusion that most people are of Sarah's opinion: no sympathy.
Lastly, be thinking about your paper ideas as soon as you can, and sending them along to me. As I said in class, I usually dislike leaving the due date to after break, but here the schedule forces it. The danger is a week of not thinking about it at all, then cramming to write it in two days. Try not to do this--remember that this will be the only draft of this essay.
Monday, April 7, 2008
4.07.08
In the interest of energy conservation, no blog is due for Wednesday. Be sure, however, to have read up to at least page 99 of Disgrace, and continue thinking about the book's relationship to our discussion of post-situation, and how those early pages (which may not have seemed to have much relationship to the theory) are modified by and parallel to what more clearly shares in post-colonial dynamics.
I'll also be posting the prompt for essay two sometime tomorrow (Tuesday), so check back and we'll discuss more on Wednesday.
I'll also be posting the prompt for essay two sometime tomorrow (Tuesday), so check back and we'll discuss more on Wednesday.
Sunday, April 6, 2008
Comparing Disgrace to Post-Colonialism
Reading Disgrace by J.M. Coetzee, I found no type of comparison to post-colonialism. I found that the first six chapters of this novel has to do with more the roles men and women play. The novel goes into how David Lurie becomes obsessed with one of the students from his Romantics course, Melanie Isaacs, and they have sex more than one time. The novel states that Lurie’s sexual acts represent rape. “A memory floods back: the moment on the floor when he forced the sweater up and exposed her neat, perfect little breasts” (Chapter 3). In a way I might be wrong and this might be a comparison to post-colonialism. I feel we are still at the very beginning to discuss the fact if the novel deals with, or can be compared to post-colonialism. Lurie is the type of man who is unable to resist having affairs with his female students. The fact that he sees Melanie as a little girl and as his student excites him, which is very disgusting. After I disagreed I might also think that this novel might deal with post-colonialism, because the story does take place in
Conquest
Is it post-colonial or colonizing?
Colonizing: I see a comparison in the concept of colonization and David want for Melanie. It doesn’t appear that Melanie is more than just an object, merely the concentration of an inert, uncontrollable “need” for conquest (which may also have been a product of his loneliness and/or boredom). He seems to have a desire for some new student every semester. David realizes that Melanie is young, that he shouldn’t be pursuant of her, but this does not stop him. In fact, it even excites him. He is drawn to her physical attributes, her skin-tone, cheek-bones. This may be similar to the resources that draw a particular country to colonizing another area. But, more important I think is the idea of conquest, with which comes an idea of superiority. David, consciously or not, believes he is superior to Melanie, or (maybe) more specifically, that he is a superior sex. This, again, parallels another concept inherent in colonization – one group of people feeling superior to another. “Why? Because a woman's beauty does not belong to her alone. It is part of the bounty she brings into the world. She has a duty to share it.” It may also be that Melanie feels she is inferior to David. She lies down to David’s will: “Not rape, not quite that, but undesired nevertheless, undesired to the core. As though she had decided to go slack, die within herself for the duration, like a rabbit when the jaws of the fox close on its neck. So that everything done to her might be done.”
Thus far I see more of a comparison to the colonizing process itself more than post-colonialism, but obviously the story has yet to end. What entices me is the fact that David has been married twice, and has a daughter. He seems to have a knack for moving on, or at least isn’t afraid to cut ties.
So, there may be more to come.
Colonizing: I see a comparison in the concept of colonization and David want for Melanie. It doesn’t appear that Melanie is more than just an object, merely the concentration of an inert, uncontrollable “need” for conquest (which may also have been a product of his loneliness and/or boredom). He seems to have a desire for some new student every semester. David realizes that Melanie is young, that he shouldn’t be pursuant of her, but this does not stop him. In fact, it even excites him. He is drawn to her physical attributes, her skin-tone, cheek-bones. This may be similar to the resources that draw a particular country to colonizing another area. But, more important I think is the idea of conquest, with which comes an idea of superiority. David, consciously or not, believes he is superior to Melanie, or (maybe) more specifically, that he is a superior sex. This, again, parallels another concept inherent in colonization – one group of people feeling superior to another. “Why? Because a woman's beauty does not belong to her alone. It is part of the bounty she brings into the world. She has a duty to share it.” It may also be that Melanie feels she is inferior to David. She lies down to David’s will: “Not rape, not quite that, but undesired nevertheless, undesired to the core. As though she had decided to go slack, die within herself for the duration, like a rabbit when the jaws of the fox close on its neck. So that everything done to her might be done.”
Thus far I see more of a comparison to the colonizing process itself more than post-colonialism, but obviously the story has yet to end. What entices me is the fact that David has been married twice, and has a daughter. He seems to have a knack for moving on, or at least isn’t afraid to cut ties.
So, there may be more to come.
Buried Comparsion..
Although J.M. Coetzee’s novel “Disgrace” is different from Conrad’s novel titled “The Heart of Darkness”, it consist of a few similarities. While reading chapters one through six, I began to realize the power David Lurie had. It is evident that Lurie is a white working male, that has the ability to pay off prostitutes for sex. An example, would be a young African American women named Soraya, whom he’s had sexual encounters with for quite sometime. When Soraya is suddenly unavailable to meet with Lurie, he becomes aggressive, by stalking her, calling her, and even showing up at her house, wanting to know why they could not see each other anymore. The act of domination of one over another is demonstrated here. Lurie feels that he owns Soraya, and that their encounters should continue. Soraya is a young African American women, who obtains a job of prostitution. Lurie, on the contrary is a white male, that has a career in teaching. This status allows Lurie to assume he has the upper hand, and the right to control Soraya’s actions, even though she is not willing to. Similar to the idea of post-colonialism in Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness”. The hegemony of one group, idea, or concept over another. Another similarity that I came across was the description of people. In J.M. Coetzee’s “Disgrace”, the remaining prostitutes that are offered to Lurie, when he is unable to meet with Soraya, are described as “exotic”. “Lots of exotics to choose from- Malaysian, Thai, Chinese, you name it.” (Coetzee, 8). In Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness” the humans that Conrad comes across are portrayed as “Black Shadows, Black Bones, Black Shapes”. Achebe mentions that Conrad does have a “fixation on Blackness”, someone’s color. These examples illustrate that the characters are not represented as individuals, but as “stereotypes”. Due to the women’s sexy qualities, they are depicted as “exotic”. As a result of the Africans dark complex, they are portrayed to be something other than human. Achebe, believes that Conrad “devalues” the African people. After comparing both works of literature, one is able to see how domination can be demonstrated in various ways.
Colonization in Coetzee
Its there but it’s hazy.
We have a white man in
Lurie’s dealings with Soraya are possibly the best stand in for the relationship between a colonizer and its conquest. Soraya is a black prostitite sells her body to white men with money and being in that station means that Lurie and her other clients don't have to actually think of her as a human being of any sort. No matter how much he may convince himself that there is something other than a business arrangement between that will never be the case. Soraya isn't even her real name and that doesn't matter to him either, just the experience does.
Her removal from the life can be seen as the act of rebellion and her commanding tone when Lurie attempts to contact her is a post-colonialist assertion of identity against her former imperial master. But Lurie is still in that haze of conquest and still feels he has a right to dominate women.
This is why he seems to be caught in a tailspin when the Isaacs scandal erupts. He failed to recognize that the world had changed and those who were oppressed have gained the power to combat their abusers.
Abstract.... Very Abstract...
Well, I am not sure what exactly this book has to do with “colonial legacy”. However, it does portray a lot of the fight between the sexists.
“Using one country as a scapegoat to make another look good is bad enough, but even worse, Achebe points out is the "dehumanization" of the people and the country that this attitude promotes (257).”
I guess that in a few ways Lurie portrays woman as little beings, children that he can control, spoil, and seduce. In the scene where Luire comes to Melanie’s home, and just takes her into her room and makes “love” to her, he is really giving her no choice and he is aroused by the fact the she gives in, and helps him in undressing her but lifting her arms and waist. This hegemonic theory of convincing one that what is being done is good for her is very distinct to the situation of a colonization, specially within her own thoughts and beliefs. I found it comic however, that what Lurie thought was perfect, later attacked him by being screwed over by this young childish girl, who was helpless. Now Melanie attacked him, and he is in the midst of loosing his job, and his status. He thought he could be this big man who could control her (like he controlled the other woman he involved himself with.)
However, these are all abstract definitions of colonization being put into action. I do not see (yet) a crystal clear definition within this story of post colonization occurring.
“Using one country as a scapegoat to make another look good is bad enough, but even worse, Achebe points out is the "dehumanization" of the people and the country that this attitude promotes (257).”
I guess that in a few ways Lurie portrays woman as little beings, children that he can control, spoil, and seduce. In the scene where Luire comes to Melanie’s home, and just takes her into her room and makes “love” to her, he is really giving her no choice and he is aroused by the fact the she gives in, and helps him in undressing her but lifting her arms and waist. This hegemonic theory of convincing one that what is being done is good for her is very distinct to the situation of a colonization, specially within her own thoughts and beliefs. I found it comic however, that what Lurie thought was perfect, later attacked him by being screwed over by this young childish girl, who was helpless. Now Melanie attacked him, and he is in the midst of loosing his job, and his status. He thought he could be this big man who could control her (like he controlled the other woman he involved himself with.)
However, these are all abstract definitions of colonization being put into action. I do not see (yet) a crystal clear definition within this story of post colonization occurring.
Coetzee on Post-Colonialism
Edward Said’s “Culture and Imperialism” reveals imperialistic Western tendencies in a modern post-colonial environment. J.M Coetzee’s novel “Disgrace” is a fictional exploration of this reality.
The early chapters of this novel are critical in setting up the protagonist, Professor David Lurie, as a prototypical, white, imperialistically inclined male. Said explains the white supremacist understanding, “Independence was for white and Europeans, the lesser or subject peoples were to be ruled” (374). These supremacists rely on generalizations, stereotyping and objectifying any non-white group. This is the character sketch being recreating in David Lurie, most clearly seen with his relationship with the black prostitute, Soraya. Obviously, lumping together various ethnicities under a general “exotic” label is an example. I thought it interesting as well that Lurie, although equally complicit in promiscuity with a prostitute, is dubious about her morals, without seeing fault in his own actions. Lurie wonders about her “opinions [being] surprisingly moralistic” (1). The white male inherently considers himself superior.
Furthermore, in just a few short pages we witness Lurie twice attempting to assert his male superiority over two weaker women. First, Lurie invades Soraya’s privacy in hiring a private detective to find her and then calling her. Next, Lurie abuses his power as a professor in his arguable rape of a student, Melanie. Significantly, Melanie’s small size is mentioned numerous times, exaggerating the evidence of male superiority over-exerting itself. Interestingly, the white males who preside over Lurie’s “committee of inquiry” do not sharply reprimand him, but instead are interested in an outward admission of repentance. Nevertheless, Edward Said promised that “even if you prevail over them [an imperialized nation] they are not going to concede to you your essential superiority or your right to rule them despite your evident wealth and power” (369). This truth is indicated in both Lurie’s relationships. Soraya threatens Lurie never to contact her again when he boldly exploits her privacy. Similarly, Melanie emerges from her meek submissiveness, in filing a complaint against her superior.
Without having yet reached the heart of Coetzee’s “Disgrace” already the reader can identify what Said expressed as “residues of imperialism” (370).
The early chapters of this novel are critical in setting up the protagonist, Professor David Lurie, as a prototypical, white, imperialistically inclined male. Said explains the white supremacist understanding, “Independence was for white and Europeans, the lesser or subject peoples were to be ruled” (374). These supremacists rely on generalizations, stereotyping and objectifying any non-white group. This is the character sketch being recreating in David Lurie, most clearly seen with his relationship with the black prostitute, Soraya. Obviously, lumping together various ethnicities under a general “exotic” label is an example. I thought it interesting as well that Lurie, although equally complicit in promiscuity with a prostitute, is dubious about her morals, without seeing fault in his own actions. Lurie wonders about her “opinions [being] surprisingly moralistic” (1). The white male inherently considers himself superior.
Furthermore, in just a few short pages we witness Lurie twice attempting to assert his male superiority over two weaker women. First, Lurie invades Soraya’s privacy in hiring a private detective to find her and then calling her. Next, Lurie abuses his power as a professor in his arguable rape of a student, Melanie. Significantly, Melanie’s small size is mentioned numerous times, exaggerating the evidence of male superiority over-exerting itself. Interestingly, the white males who preside over Lurie’s “committee of inquiry” do not sharply reprimand him, but instead are interested in an outward admission of repentance. Nevertheless, Edward Said promised that “even if you prevail over them [an imperialized nation] they are not going to concede to you your essential superiority or your right to rule them despite your evident wealth and power” (369). This truth is indicated in both Lurie’s relationships. Soraya threatens Lurie never to contact her again when he boldly exploits her privacy. Similarly, Melanie emerges from her meek submissiveness, in filing a complaint against her superior.
Without having yet reached the heart of Coetzee’s “Disgrace” already the reader can identify what Said expressed as “residues of imperialism” (370).
What Comparsion ???????????
How does post -colonialism and Coetzee’s “Disgrace” compare ?
I honestly don’t know .In the novel “Disgrace” ,I could not see the connection between the two. I thought the novel had more to do with sexism and an abuse of power. At first, I was under the impression that the novel had to do with a 52 year old man, going through a mid-life crisis, or maybe someone who was obsessed with sex. Laurie’s attitude towards women was a little sexist. In the first chapter his talking about his interest in Soria, a call girl that he visits on Thursdays. When Soria leaves the house he moves on to one of his 21 year old students. The way he pursued Melanie and abused his power was wrong and unfair. I mean He knew what he was doing was wrong but he slept with her anyway. After he kind of pushed her into sleeping with him, he calls her and stalks her at home. He marks her present in class when she’s not there, and when she misses the mid-term he gave her a grade of 70, these actions spell out guilt to me. The character of Laurie in my opinion is careless, irresponsible, and someone who can not really admit to his mistakes. The moment I realized this was when Melanie filed a complaint and he had to go before the committee, the fact that he could not by remorseful about what he had done; all he could say was that he was guilty of whatever Melanie had accused him of. This attitude to me was of someone who didn’t care that he had hurt and ruined a young women’s life. If you ask me Laurie is that kind of guy who treats women as objects for his own amusement.
I honestly don’t know .In the novel “Disgrace” ,I could not see the connection between the two. I thought the novel had more to do with sexism and an abuse of power. At first, I was under the impression that the novel had to do with a 52 year old man, going through a mid-life crisis, or maybe someone who was obsessed with sex. Laurie’s attitude towards women was a little sexist. In the first chapter his talking about his interest in Soria, a call girl that he visits on Thursdays. When Soria leaves the house he moves on to one of his 21 year old students. The way he pursued Melanie and abused his power was wrong and unfair. I mean He knew what he was doing was wrong but he slept with her anyway. After he kind of pushed her into sleeping with him, he calls her and stalks her at home. He marks her present in class when she’s not there, and when she misses the mid-term he gave her a grade of 70, these actions spell out guilt to me. The character of Laurie in my opinion is careless, irresponsible, and someone who can not really admit to his mistakes. The moment I realized this was when Melanie filed a complaint and he had to go before the committee, the fact that he could not by remorseful about what he had done; all he could say was that he was guilty of whatever Melanie had accused him of. This attitude to me was of someone who didn’t care that he had hurt and ruined a young women’s life. If you ask me Laurie is that kind of guy who treats women as objects for his own amusement.
Disgrace & Envelopment
Coetzee’s Disgrace has more to do with post-colonial theory then one might think. Whether it’s from the educational standpoint where David, a professor teaching at an African University a course on romantic poetry, mainly if not all being concerned with English author’s. Or from David’s own sexual desire, in some ways can be symbolized of colonialism itself.
Soraya for example, the novels described prostitute and “exotic” is being used for pleasure. Used for a commodity that an Englishman (from 6hat I could make from) is paying for a service that has no true monetary value. David’s affair with his student Melanie is maybe the most significant example of a connection with colonial workings. For an older, experienced man is entering into a new, ripe world. Taking from it, all the while knowing it isn’t a reciprocating trade, he thrusts himself upon her, takes time to call, track down and find. She merely is too weak to evade or too young to know to evade. Siad’s words are best used to describe this “relationship” between David and Melanie, “The thing to be noticed about this kind of contemporary discourse, which assumes the primacy and even complete centrality of the West, is how totalizing is its form, how all –enveloping its attitudes and gestures…”(372). David creates scenerios in his mind of the women he encounters, with Melanie it was the signing of a complaint against him. Where throughout the whole scene, she is forced to do it, pressured from her family to incriminate him. There is no evidence supporting this imagining, but the reader is given it without further pondering, it is Laurie’s western envelopment that is given, nothing else is allowed.
Soraya for example, the novels described prostitute and “exotic” is being used for pleasure. Used for a commodity that an Englishman (from 6hat I could make from) is paying for a service that has no true monetary value. David’s affair with his student Melanie is maybe the most significant example of a connection with colonial workings. For an older, experienced man is entering into a new, ripe world. Taking from it, all the while knowing it isn’t a reciprocating trade, he thrusts himself upon her, takes time to call, track down and find. She merely is too weak to evade or too young to know to evade. Siad’s words are best used to describe this “relationship” between David and Melanie, “The thing to be noticed about this kind of contemporary discourse, which assumes the primacy and even complete centrality of the West, is how totalizing is its form, how all –enveloping its attitudes and gestures…”(372). David creates scenerios in his mind of the women he encounters, with Melanie it was the signing of a complaint against him. Where throughout the whole scene, she is forced to do it, pressured from her family to incriminate him. There is no evidence supporting this imagining, but the reader is given it without further pondering, it is Laurie’s western envelopment that is given, nothing else is allowed.
What I found to be a linking component of Coetzee's Disgrace and Post Colonialism is the point of view from David Lurie and the colonizers. To me David looked at women as sort of a property and when I think of colonizing it is more on the lines of owning something then taking care of it. From the first handful of chapters he says that he is a womenizer beacause he grew up around only women. I don't know if i really believe that but his outlook on women is nothing new that I hear every Friday or Saturday night in a bar. I haven't made my mind up yet if he cares for them or if he is just strictly using them for a conquest type of attitude. One of the quotes that make me lean towards that is at the end of chapter four, "A quick shudder of lust tugs him. I have been there! he thinks. Then the motorcycle surges forward, bearing her away." The author could have put any words or any thoughts there but he chose to use that. He could have thought about the stress or the weird situation he put her in or even the hurt he caused, but no, he thinks I have been there. And that was something that stuck with me as I was reading and his comments about not seeing them the next morning after just continues to push me towards the fact that he is just a scumbag.
But that is the unifying thing i found is that they look a certain group of people as things and not as a person. I dont know if that is what your looking for but that's what keeps popping into my head. Both parties have a similar mindset in that they are both selfish, they do whatever benifets them and do not think of the consquences that it has on others until after the act is done and in both cases they usually dont care.
But that is the unifying thing i found is that they look a certain group of people as things and not as a person. I dont know if that is what your looking for but that's what keeps popping into my head. Both parties have a similar mindset in that they are both selfish, they do whatever benifets them and do not think of the consquences that it has on others until after the act is done and in both cases they usually dont care.
Connections? Maybe!
There are some connections between the first six chapters of J.M. Coetzee's "Disgrace." While they may seem hidden under a plot that would normally call in feminists to over analyze every single comment the main character, Professor Lurie, makes, the connections are there. The main idea behind post colonialism is exploitation. The British would take over and control the colonies for their own desires. Those that lived there, the "savages" were nothing more than tools, things, not people. This interpretation of how a European sees an African was the basis for Achebe's complaintment piece. Achebe argues that the author Conrad (Heart of Darkness) was a racist and based the story "Heart of Darkness" on his racist ideals. Whether Conrad was a racist or not is a discussion that could go on for days, luckily for me, all I have to write about is the notion of exploitation. Professor Lurie was old white-man who was a professor at a university. Old, White, educated, in a position of power, that’s him, lets also toss in the fact that he fancies prostitutes, he almost sounds like a villain.
On the subject of prostitutes, we have Soroya, his one and only (in terms of prostitutes). It is interesting to note that she is Muslim, a dark skinned Muslim. These two facts are gently mentioned early in the story. "He strokes her honey-brown body, unmarked by the sun (1)" and "She may work for the agency only one or two afternoons a week, and for the rest live a respectable life in the suburbs, in Rylands or Anthlone. That would be unusual for a Muslim, but all things are possible these days.(3)" The powerful white man uses Soroya for sex because he finds it better than being in a relationship, he ignores her feelings and even goes as far as trying to contact her when she takes a leave of absence to tend to her sick mother. Before that, he spots her in town and actually follows her. These actions show his complete disregard for Soroya as a person. He felt that she exists for his pleasure; he felt that he owned her.
On the subject of prostitutes, we have Soroya, his one and only (in terms of prostitutes). It is interesting to note that she is Muslim, a dark skinned Muslim. These two facts are gently mentioned early in the story. "He strokes her honey-brown body, unmarked by the sun (1)" and "She may work for the agency only one or two afternoons a week, and for the rest live a respectable life in the suburbs, in Rylands or Anthlone. That would be unusual for a Muslim, but all things are possible these days.(3)" The powerful white man uses Soroya for sex because he finds it better than being in a relationship, he ignores her feelings and even goes as far as trying to contact her when she takes a leave of absence to tend to her sick mother. Before that, he spots her in town and actually follows her. These actions show his complete disregard for Soroya as a person. He felt that she exists for his pleasure; he felt that he owned her.
Saturday, April 5, 2008
NO Comparsion!!!!!!!!!!
When reading the novel by J.M Coetzee "Disgrace" i found it to have no comparsion to post-colonialism; it seemed more o compare to the difference between women and men and the roles that they continually played throughout the world and with in it's own set social community. The main characters represented the distinguishment between the social and cultural comparsion and differences with ones own country.
two see Lurie protrayed as a loose cannon ready and willing not caring about what no one has to say , He shows no remorse for anything that he happens to cause on his own , he feels this way even down to the point of when his job is at risk. Here is the point where it seems more like a novel writen to tell of the hardship of what man goes through then , talking about the British or the french coming along and taking over one's place . Coetzee's Views of Colonialism was that in Africa the mistreatment of what they had to endure , How these people came in and turn their lifes around more then these people turning their invaders around and making them feel so uncomfortable.
Disgrace seemed to start of as a man who was the disgrace of calling himself a man but not living up to the aspects and the role of what a man is to be in this world . Lurie continually feels like he owns not one person exclamation to why they he can't get himself together and the reason why he is so heartless to others who feel any differentially, about his situtation or anything else. Maybe it me but i didn't find any comparsion between the two topics when starting this novel and going back into the notes of post-colonialism.
two see Lurie protrayed as a loose cannon ready and willing not caring about what no one has to say , He shows no remorse for anything that he happens to cause on his own , he feels this way even down to the point of when his job is at risk. Here is the point where it seems more like a novel writen to tell of the hardship of what man goes through then , talking about the British or the french coming along and taking over one's place . Coetzee's Views of Colonialism was that in Africa the mistreatment of what they had to endure , How these people came in and turn their lifes around more then these people turning their invaders around and making them feel so uncomfortable.
Disgrace seemed to start of as a man who was the disgrace of calling himself a man but not living up to the aspects and the role of what a man is to be in this world . Lurie continually feels like he owns not one person exclamation to why they he can't get himself together and the reason why he is so heartless to others who feel any differentially, about his situtation or anything else. Maybe it me but i didn't find any comparsion between the two topics when starting this novel and going back into the notes of post-colonialism.
The thing that in my mind most connected Disgrace to post-colonialism was the line by the "hostess" service when David Lurie calls in to find out about Soraya. They ask: "Would you like an introduction to another of our hostesses? Lots of exotics to choose from - Malaysian, Thai, Chinese, you name it." While I read this, I couldn't help but thinking about what Achebe was saying about the way Conrad perceives native Africans in Heart of Darkness.
Achebe's biggest gripe with Conrad was his writing off all Africans as savage dark people who melt into the vast jungle. They are the "other," something so clearly separate and opposite of Europe. In Disgrace, the "exotic" whores serve this colonialist purpose. They are the "other" that aren't refined, civilized women, they exist only as objects of men's pleasure. They're not just one "other" either, the pimp gives a laundry list of exotics to Lurie.
The comparison of characters that Achebe brings up is also very relevant. Achebe talks of two women described in Heart of Darkness, one white, and one black. "The difference in the attitude of the novelist to these two women is conveyed in too many direct and subfile ways to need elaboration." Coetzee too, contrasts two women much like Conrad does. Soraya, the "exotic hostess" and Melanie Isaacs, who's name is often repeated in Lurie's mind with a French inflection. In love making, Lurie describes Soraya as "entirely satisfactory," won't bore her with the details of his much more acceptable job, describes her photo as revealing the lines at the corners of her eyes, and made sure to keep his relationship with her on the down low. In fact, what sold him on Soraya was "the promise of shuttered rooms, cool sheets, stolen hours."
Melanie on the other hand prances around naked while she's changing, without the inhibitions of older, less beautiful women. Lurie describes her body as "clear, simple, in its way perfect," and finds their first tryst so pleasurable that he blanks out after climaxing. Most importantly, he lets her move into his house, knowing full well that word would quickly get out about their affair.
The way these two women, the young, bourgeois, college student, and the "exotic," whore who's age is catching up to her reveal the same thing in the character of Lurie that are revealed in Marlow. In fact, when Achebe states that "the difference in the attitude of the novelist to these two women is conveyed in too many direct and subfile ways to need elaboration," it could easily be superimposed onto a critique of Disgrace (and I think I just did that).
Achebe's biggest gripe with Conrad was his writing off all Africans as savage dark people who melt into the vast jungle. They are the "other," something so clearly separate and opposite of Europe. In Disgrace, the "exotic" whores serve this colonialist purpose. They are the "other" that aren't refined, civilized women, they exist only as objects of men's pleasure. They're not just one "other" either, the pimp gives a laundry list of exotics to Lurie.
The comparison of characters that Achebe brings up is also very relevant. Achebe talks of two women described in Heart of Darkness, one white, and one black. "The difference in the attitude of the novelist to these two women is conveyed in too many direct and subfile ways to need elaboration." Coetzee too, contrasts two women much like Conrad does. Soraya, the "exotic hostess" and Melanie Isaacs, who's name is often repeated in Lurie's mind with a French inflection. In love making, Lurie describes Soraya as "entirely satisfactory," won't bore her with the details of his much more acceptable job, describes her photo as revealing the lines at the corners of her eyes, and made sure to keep his relationship with her on the down low. In fact, what sold him on Soraya was "the promise of shuttered rooms, cool sheets, stolen hours."
Melanie on the other hand prances around naked while she's changing, without the inhibitions of older, less beautiful women. Lurie describes her body as "clear, simple, in its way perfect," and finds their first tryst so pleasurable that he blanks out after climaxing. Most importantly, he lets her move into his house, knowing full well that word would quickly get out about their affair.
The way these two women, the young, bourgeois, college student, and the "exotic," whore who's age is catching up to her reveal the same thing in the character of Lurie that are revealed in Marlow. In fact, when Achebe states that "the difference in the attitude of the novelist to these two women is conveyed in too many direct and subfile ways to need elaboration," it could easily be superimposed onto a critique of Disgrace (and I think I just did that).
Lurie and beyond
I didn’t see much of linkages between the novel, “Disgrace” and post-colonial theories of which I thus far have been familiar with. Instead I saw linkages more visible with sexism. But what I could pull out from this- that is, in trying to make connections between this novel and post-colonialism in any way possible-, though with a bit of hesitance, would be the attitude of professor Lurie, his unapologetic, uncompromising way of thinking by which he eventually loses his job, and the way it reminds me of the formal colonizer of Gabon.
Though Lurie admits his wrongdoings, when confronted, he’s not ashamed of himself(not that he must be) and refuses to, at least, try to be so. What people think is the right or wrong is beyond his principles and though he isn’t certainly going to be happy of the worst that can happen to him, he doesn’t try to fight back either.
This particular side of Lurie’s temperament made me think of that of the French government, who, despite of its brutal, merciless exploitation over Gabonese people, wouldn’t necessarily bend its knees but instead continue its acts in now rather subtle ways.
Though Gabon found its country back, and the French government acknowledged of its independence, does it mean that the French truly admitted what it did was wrong? Maybe they didn’t have to. After all, it was just a colony, they didn’t have to go beyond their principles.
Though Lurie admits his wrongdoings, when confronted, he’s not ashamed of himself(not that he must be) and refuses to, at least, try to be so. What people think is the right or wrong is beyond his principles and though he isn’t certainly going to be happy of the worst that can happen to him, he doesn’t try to fight back either.
This particular side of Lurie’s temperament made me think of that of the French government, who, despite of its brutal, merciless exploitation over Gabonese people, wouldn’t necessarily bend its knees but instead continue its acts in now rather subtle ways.
Though Gabon found its country back, and the French government acknowledged of its independence, does it mean that the French truly admitted what it did was wrong? Maybe they didn’t have to. After all, it was just a colony, they didn’t have to go beyond their principles.
Theory and "Disgrace"
In Achebe’s essay; 34. “Conrad’s liberalism would not take him quite as far as Schweitzer’s, though. He would not use the word brother however qualified; the farthest he would go was kinship. When Marlow’s African helmsman falls down with a spear in his heart he gives his white master one final disquieting look.” We know that the African Helmsman and Marlow are two separate races. They speak two separate languages, and have a distinction in their culture. This all equals into confined relation of human feelings between each other. In a caste society, it seems like the African helmsman will never be like the upper class Marlow. Why would Marlow have any feelings for him? But once a man dies, every man understands that such confined relation of feelings does not exist; “Call no man happy until he is dead”. (pg 2 Disgrace) As living individuals, neither Marlow, a wealthy tourist is happy nor the poor helmsman.
In Edward Said’s essay he states; “Even if you prevail over them, they are not going to concede to you your essential superiority or your right to rule them despite your evident wealth and power.”(369) Here we can make a connection between David Lurie and Melanie Isaacs. David Lurie thought that he can get away with it, being a romantic professor to Melanie and the sexual relations that they had in his home. David thought of his occupation as superior, but on the other hand like Said says “Even if you prevail over them, they are not going to concede to your essential superiority” (369) Melanie was not afraid that her education was going to be in jeopardy if the situation spread to the Vice-Rector. She knew that she had to take appropriate action; “That is how it begins . . . a memorandum arrives from the office of the Vice-Rector . . . a complaint against him (Lurie) . . . under article 3.1 of the University’s Code of Conduct”. (38)
In Edward Said’s essay he states; “Even if you prevail over them, they are not going to concede to you your essential superiority or your right to rule them despite your evident wealth and power.”(369) Here we can make a connection between David Lurie and Melanie Isaacs. David Lurie thought that he can get away with it, being a romantic professor to Melanie and the sexual relations that they had in his home. David thought of his occupation as superior, but on the other hand like Said says “Even if you prevail over them, they are not going to concede to your essential superiority” (369) Melanie was not afraid that her education was going to be in jeopardy if the situation spread to the Vice-Rector. She knew that she had to take appropriate action; “That is how it begins . . . a memorandum arrives from the office of the Vice-Rector . . . a complaint against him (Lurie) . . . under article 3.1 of the University’s Code of Conduct”. (38)
Postcolonialism in "Disgrace"
Although seemingly having nothing to do with on another, J.M. Coetzee's novel, "Disgrace" does have implications of post-colonialism and the ideas that are associated with it. Particularly dealing with the aftermath of a domineering force crushing a subservient one, Professor Lurie's affair with his student in the first part of this novel, seems to point towards the same ideas and the same effects that post-colonialism has on a country that has newly been granted freedom.
Since this is only the very beginning of the novel, relationships and the resolution of David's affair with Melanie is not yet released, it is a little difficult to see the connection. However, there are similarities between this story and Conrad's "Heart of Darkness" that illuminate relationships of dominance and human relationships and how others are seen in relation to one another. As Achebe says, "As everybody knows, Conrad is a romantic on the side. He might not exactly admire savages clapping their hands and stamping their feet but they have at least the merit of being in their place, unlike this dog in a parody of breeches. For Conrad things being in their place is of the utmost importance." In Coetzee's novel, the main character is also a romantic and has his expertise in romantic poetry and his love for literary study as opposed to communications. There is some evidence that there is an assertion of power, especially because he is a professor and as Melanie's father says to him, "We put our hands in the hands of you people because we think we can trust you". David Lurie, with his sexual awakenings found in whores and young teen girls, completely contradicts the idea of being a romantic and admiring his students for their intelligence by soiling his position with perversion and lust.
There is still a want for placement and for perhaps these women to stay where they are supposed to, anything less than this will complicate his life unnecessarily. Soraya can never spend the night with him because "he knows too much about himself to subject her to the morning after..." The woman he sleeps with have a place for him and have a particular role to play. There is no other interest in them and perhaps this is the way it worked for the colonizer. There was no interest in the country, nor in the relationship they would share other than the resources.
Since this deals with sexual relations and the major part of the section deals solely with Luire's appearance before a board and dealing with his guilt that he refuses to admit he has, it does raise the question of. "how does this relate to post-colonialism at all?" But, if you look at the power that Lurie has over Melanie and the sexual force he exerts on her by abusing his position of authority, it as exactly what happened to the colonized countries. There is no guilt that is evident from the colonizers and the intent of both Lurie and them are very similar. There was not necessarily a malicious initial intent, however, circumstances being what they were, the colonizers were not left with any other choice but to act as they did. Lurie saw women (in particular, Melanie) as something to overcome and to take over and he did this through sex. Colonizers saw weaker countries in the same way, only they overtook them by assertion of culture, law, religion and force.
Since this is only the very beginning of the novel, relationships and the resolution of David's affair with Melanie is not yet released, it is a little difficult to see the connection. However, there are similarities between this story and Conrad's "Heart of Darkness" that illuminate relationships of dominance and human relationships and how others are seen in relation to one another. As Achebe says, "As everybody knows, Conrad is a romantic on the side. He might not exactly admire savages clapping their hands and stamping their feet but they have at least the merit of being in their place, unlike this dog in a parody of breeches. For Conrad things being in their place is of the utmost importance." In Coetzee's novel, the main character is also a romantic and has his expertise in romantic poetry and his love for literary study as opposed to communications. There is some evidence that there is an assertion of power, especially because he is a professor and as Melanie's father says to him, "We put our hands in the hands of you people because we think we can trust you". David Lurie, with his sexual awakenings found in whores and young teen girls, completely contradicts the idea of being a romantic and admiring his students for their intelligence by soiling his position with perversion and lust.
There is still a want for placement and for perhaps these women to stay where they are supposed to, anything less than this will complicate his life unnecessarily. Soraya can never spend the night with him because "he knows too much about himself to subject her to the morning after..." The woman he sleeps with have a place for him and have a particular role to play. There is no other interest in them and perhaps this is the way it worked for the colonizer. There was no interest in the country, nor in the relationship they would share other than the resources.
Since this deals with sexual relations and the major part of the section deals solely with Luire's appearance before a board and dealing with his guilt that he refuses to admit he has, it does raise the question of. "how does this relate to post-colonialism at all?" But, if you look at the power that Lurie has over Melanie and the sexual force he exerts on her by abusing his position of authority, it as exactly what happened to the colonized countries. There is no guilt that is evident from the colonizers and the intent of both Lurie and them are very similar. There was not necessarily a malicious initial intent, however, circumstances being what they were, the colonizers were not left with any other choice but to act as they did. Lurie saw women (in particular, Melanie) as something to overcome and to take over and he did this through sex. Colonizers saw weaker countries in the same way, only they overtook them by assertion of culture, law, religion and force.
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